Forums / Cotonti / Development / Poll: A global switch to HTML parsing

Right, see if we add a config so you can turn off nl2br

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Even that would output exactly the same as your first one

nl2br is a problem for anyone who wants to have 100% control and formatting over your text like you wish to. Which isn't relative to bbcode at all, let me show you a demo here on cotonti.com

Added 1 hour 12 minutes later:

Ok, well here is the demo. I tried to show many possible combination's and the results.

http://www.cotonti.com/plug.php?e=parserdemo

I think the real grief everyone is having is with nl2br not bbcode itself. I tried to show in the demo, how bbcode does not effect typography at all. Its simply nl2br.

Second, none of your examples is able to give me i.e. .4em paragraph spacing (like here). Its either extra line (ugly) or none (unreadable).

The examples can do that very thing. That is the one of the things I was trying to show you. They can be completely readable, even with extra lines. Without breaking the actual output formatting simply by having nl2br disabled.

BBcode has 0 effect on typography. Its purely nl2br. I can show you what you want with a .4em paragraph spacing or anything you want.

Each sample provided the sample text that was used in the outputs, before running it through any parsing.

Third, with html I can use any style declared in the skin css-file without messing with bbcode config

Yes you can do that perfectly fine, I just went for quick examples. My point was BBCode is NOT the issue with typography complaints. Its nl2br thats causing unexpected results.

I will update the demo with a section to insert whatever you want for page data, and have it parse (normal) and then without nl2br

Added 18 minutes later:

Ok its there and working. Just remember if you insert HTML that works off your CSS, incluse a link to your CSS file. And it still has to be formatted properly.

(This "Self Demo" will not be open to Regular members or guests)

Added 8 minutes later:

Anyways as I said before. We will include HTML support as people are wanting it. My only point is there is 0 reason to remove BBcode. It has no Ill effects. The big grief is clearly with nl2br which I can see and totaly agree for it to be an option to disable, and or auto-disabled with HTML parsing.

Admins will be able to choose what happens on their site with editors and what method they want.

If You chose a method that does not involve BBcode, Your database will not have 2 entries such as "page_text" and "page_html" You would only have data in (say for example) "page_html". Since yes it would be a waste of your resources to have it stored twice.

to be true i will let this in your capable hands.
i have faith that you guys will surprise me with a cool innovative new "Textboxer"
but with a factor of 1000

and i think someone who needs to administrate a site should be at least aware of some html knowledge.
and if he needs a pointer some fancy wysiwyg editor with premade tables and picture size etc. (i think the current table feature sucks to be true, cool for rudimentry formatting but the old one could do widths) so some tables visualised with red borders like in thunderbird would be cool.

i dont know why this should be such a problem having the user choose at installation or via config wich parser they would like to use? Migration is easy i think so everything should be ok with the HTML solution for me... there is no realy difference then.

As I stated before, there will be no increase in database size, and no slowdown in core by keeping BBcode. If people chose to HTML only they will have a decrease in database side, People who chose to use BBcode still will have the exact same database size as before.

If you want pure HTML your data will only be stored once, as there is no need for a parsed and unparsed version. If anything HTML purifier will slow down (submissions/edits), but that's the tradeoff for using it and keeping things safe. Even then its minor and nothing to worry about.

Only thing that will change by allow HTML is improvement in the core allow additional options.

You have to remember. BBcode isn't for everyone's site, Nor is HTML. The admin should choose what they want or don't want. So that's what we are going to let them do. The people have spoken and they want a way to use HTML better. So that is what we are giving them, without taking away anything from anyone else either.

According to general good front-end development practices, nl2br is not preferable. The <br/> tag should only be used if absolutely necessary or the logical choice, and NOT for seperating paragraphs. The <p> tag is the only acceptable and flexible way to do this. Since BBcodes uses <br> tags it is yet another reason to make the switch.

In general, I try to follow the Dutch government Web Standards as much as possible. These standards also include guidelines for paragraphs.

OK, guys, this has been a hot discussion and I'll try to summarize some conclusions I've made out of it:

1. Multiple parser support is still required
2. World-class HTML parser/purifier/editor is preferable for pages/contents. In most places bbcodes are being phased out.
3. BBcodes are still good for community sites
4. But nl2br has to go for good, a more versatile bbcode parser with correct paragraphs is required

Considering this, I have proposals such as:

• Keep the system multi-parser
• Provide multiple parsers and editors attached to them
• Let users choose parsing mode and customize parsing/filtering settings on global level and for some specific modules
• HTML parser and WYSIWIG-capable editor should be default in new installations
• BBcode parser needs a smart paragraph-aware replacement for nl2br

I was also worried about the fact that including HTML purifier and CKEditor into Cotonti package would increase the 7z size by more than 500kB. So far the survey shows that we can afford it.