Which CMS should I move to?

Poll: Time to give up ?

diablo	#1 2011-12-17 20:45
Members Bedankt: 5 tijden	I never thought i would say this but i think its time to give up.. Im around since LDU 600 and when i look around i can easilty tell its not 2002 anymore but this thing still looks same even more ugly than it used to be. We have bunch of coders and not a single designer. Its neocrome all over again. Poor design, weak support and no community. It is time we should move on, this is going nowhere. So im asking you which CMS should I migrate ? Joomla Drupal TYPO3 MODx Wordpress Since we all used the same CMS over all those years im sure you would know what is best to choose. "Always code as if the guy who ends up maintaining your code will be a violent psychopath who knows where you live."

diablo

#1 2011-12-17 20:45

I never thought i would say this but i think its time to give up.. Im around since LDU 600 and when i look around i can easilty tell its not 2002 anymore but this thing still looks same even more ugly than it used to be. We have bunch of coders and not a single designer. Its neocrome all over again. Poor design, weak support and no community.

It is time we should move on, this is going nowhere. So im asking you which CMS should I migrate ?

Joomla Drupal TYPO3 MODx Wordpress

Since we all used the same CMS over all those years im sure you would know what is best to choose.

"Always code as if the guy who ends up maintaining your code will be a violent psychopath who knows where you live."

GHengeveld	#2 2011-12-18 04:13
Team Bedankt: 52 tijden	Please let everyone decide for themselves what to do. If great downloadable templates is what you want you might be right, but for most websites you'll want a custom template anyway. Sure there are other alternatives and you're free to use any system you like but thats also going to complicate stuff a lot since you'll have to learn a new system, migrate your site, etc. Actually I am capable of designing good looking stuff but I've simply never taken the time to create a decent template, except for some half-done templates that I never released. I've also thought about hiring a designer to create a nice template but i never got around to that and it would cost me a lot of money (500-1000 eur). Still that amount dwarfs the amount of money I've already invested as time.

GHengeveld

#2 2011-12-18 04:13

Team
Bedankt: 52 tijden

Please let everyone decide for themselves what to do. If great downloadable templates is what you want you might be right, but for most websites you'll want a custom template anyway. Sure there are other alternatives and you're free to use any system you like but thats also going to complicate stuff a lot since you'll have to learn a new system, migrate your site, etc. Actually I am capable of designing good looking stuff but I've simply never taken the time to create a decent template, except for some half-done templates that I never released. I've also thought about hiring a designer to create a nice template but i never got around to that and it would cost me a lot of money (500-1000 eur). Still that amount dwarfs the amount of money I've already invested as time.

Trustmaster	#3 2011-12-18 06:14
Administrators Bedankt: 263 tijden	Go MODx Revolution if you want to be modern and object oriented, go Drupal if you want something clean and procedural, go Cotonti if you want to be involved. May the Source be with you!

ez	#4 2011-12-18 09:33
Contributors Bedankt: 10 tijden	Still.. Diablo has a small point that we (all devs and designers...) should look at... The design could be better.... Also the front end techniques are POOR!!! The core however is good, fast, flexible... But maybe its time to spend more time on front end in stead of backend ? So nice plugins and some nice design... (This is the only way to get new and enthousiastic members) I am very much a Front end guy and will release Myfiles soon. This will have far more better frontend techniques like AJAX (partial screen refreshes), JSON returns.... To let this community grow, we need to spend more time on the front end... (I can help there) just my thoughts.... Want some nice design tip: http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap/ ==- I say: Keep it EZ -==

#4 2011-12-18 09:33

Contributors
Bedankt: 10 tijden

Still.. Diablo has a small point that we (all devs and designers...) should look at... The design could be better.... Also the front end techniques are POOR!!!

The core however is good, fast, flexible... But maybe its time to spend more time on front end in stead of backend ?
So nice plugins and some nice design... (This is the only way to get new and enthousiastic members)

I am very much a Front end guy and will release Myfiles soon.
This will have far more better frontend techniques like AJAX (partial screen refreshes), JSON returns....

To let this community grow, we need to spend more time on the front end... (I can help there)

just my thoughts....

Want some nice design tip: http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap/

==- I say: Keep it EZ -==

Kingsley	#5 2011-12-18 11:39
Donator Bedankt: 7 tijden	:) I have been saying that for a while now.. But to plainly give up Cotonti.. Hell no! Doesn't take away the fact that there have to be some more skins and a lot more usefull plugins. maybe is it wise to look at what other CMS have in their default plugin db? and at least try to image that, or make a selection of what we want/think is good for cotonti. to fulfill my part; I've gotten some books on php, so I will try to learn the basics as quick as possible, so I can contribute on the smaller plugins. I have to say though, it's kinda unfair to address the dev team in the way it happened here. Haven't seen you around in ages, and out of the blue this post.. makes me go: hmmm..

Kingsley

#5 2011-12-18 11:39

Donator
Bedankt: 7 tijden

:) I have been saying that for a while now.. But to plainly give up Cotonti.. Hell no!

Doesn't take away the fact that there have to be some more skins and a lot more usefull plugins.

maybe is it wise to look at what other CMS have in their default plugin db? and at least try to image that, or make a selection of what we want/think is good for cotonti.

to fulfill my part; I've gotten some books on php, so I will try to learn the basics as quick as possible, so I can contribute on the smaller plugins.

I have to say though, it's kinda unfair to address the dev team in the way it happened here. Haven't seen you around in ages, and out of the blue this post.. makes me go: hmmm..

Trustmaster	#6 2011-12-18 16:12
Administrators Bedankt: 263 tijden	Sorry guys, I'm not a frontend developer, I've always felt a lot more excited about backends. So I avoid making UIs and leave it to people who are better at it. I think among our current team members only Gert and Kort are capable enough of doing front ends, but they are damn busy with other stuff. May the Source be with you!

lukgoh	#7 2011-12-18 21:10
Members Bedankt: 12 tijden	It's my opinion that it would be stupid to throw away a top CMS just because there is a lack of frontend designs, considering how easy it is to convert a html template (sold fairly cheap around the internet.) into a working theme for Cotonti. I think you should address the community and ask them what they would like from the frontend design and then those of us who can, work on designs based on their requirments. That way we get some fresh designs introduced and also you will be able to find out exactly what they want. Then they can vote on the one (maybe more) that they like the most and that can become the new default theme? Just an idea, Luke.

lukgoh

#7 2011-12-18 21:10

Members
Bedankt: 12 tijden

It's my opinion that it would be stupid to throw away a top CMS just because there is a lack of frontend designs, considering how easy it is to convert a html template (sold fairly cheap around the internet.) into a working theme for Cotonti.

I think you should address the community and ask them what they would like from the frontend design and then those of us who can, work on designs based on their requirments. That way we get some fresh designs introduced and also you will be able to find out exactly what they want. Then they can vote on the one (maybe more) that they like the most and that can become the new default theme?

Just an idea,

Luke.

diablo	#8 2011-12-19 01:08
Members Bedankt: 5 tijden	Unlike most of you im not in computer/internet bussiness anymore (sadly). When i was still interested in CMS stuff i ran the Turkish community of LDU and seditio written some plugins designed some skins translated through LDU700 , converted stuff from other CMS which I dont even have backup files. So I think I have done enough. We failed as a community, we failed at neocrome, we failed here. I cant say I did much for cotonti but I dont feel guilty because this CMS was half-dead when it was taken from neocrome and now its a zombie. It moves but it doesnt mean its alive. My point is there are so many active CMS communities which have thousands of plugins/skins for free and tons of companies offering paid work, the more people involved in a cms the better it becomes. There is no need to discover america all over again. I dont want to regret I spend my time on something dead and neither should you. Thanks to anyone who got involved to this CMS and the ones before this one, but im done. "Always code as if the guy who ends up maintaining your code will be a violent psychopath who knows where you live."

diablo

#8 2011-12-19 01:08

Members
Bedankt: 5 tijden

Unlike most of you im not in computer/internet bussiness anymore (sadly). When i was still interested in CMS stuff i ran the Turkish community of LDU and seditio written some plugins designed some skins translated through LDU700 , converted stuff from other CMS which I dont even have backup files. So I think I have done enough.

We failed as a community, we failed at neocrome, we failed here. I cant say I did much for cotonti but I dont feel guilty because this CMS was half-dead when it was taken from neocrome and now its a zombie. It moves but it doesnt mean its alive. My point is there are so many active CMS communities which have thousands of plugins/skins for free and tons of companies offering paid work, the more people involved in a cms the better it becomes. There is no need to discover america all over again. I dont want to regret I spend my time on something dead and neither should you.

Thanks to anyone who got involved to this CMS and the ones before this one, but im done.

"Always code as if the guy who ends up maintaining your code will be a violent psychopath who knows where you live."

GHengeveld	#9 2011-12-19 09:35
Team Bedankt: 52 tijden	Hi diablo, Thanks for sharing your insight. I can imagine you want to have a larger community working actively on your CMS of choice. Unfortunately we simply cannot offer this, nor is there anything I can do about it on the short term. I'm very sorry to see you go, but if this is your decision then we'll just have to live with it. Remember that you'll always be welcome here if you change your mind. It's what differentiates our community from the others, we value every single member. Before you're gone, would you answer the following questions for me? It will be very much appreciated. What do you think is the most imporant aspect of a successful community? What would you do if you were in my position (community manager & developer) right now? (assuming you have all skills and knowledge you need) What would make you change your mind?

GHengeveld

#9 2011-12-19 09:35

Team
Bedankt: 52 tijden

Hi diablo,

Thanks for sharing your insight. I can imagine you want to have a larger community working actively on your CMS of choice. Unfortunately we simply cannot offer this, nor is there anything I can do about it on the short term. I'm very sorry to see you go, but if this is your decision then we'll just have to live with it. Remember that you'll always be welcome here if you change your mind. It's what differentiates our community from the others, we value every single member.

Before you're gone, would you answer the following questions for me? It will be very much appreciated.

What do you think is the most imporant aspect of a successful community?
What would you do if you were in my position (community manager & developer) right now? (assuming you have all skills and knowledge you need)
What would make you change your mind?

urlkiller	#10 2011-12-19 15:29
Contributors Bedankt: 3 tijden	NOOOOOOOOO! Another one down I agree on some points with Diablo. But still this is failry the best and versataile System i came across on the internets. But Maybe its really better for the impatient to move along to new green madows... Me for my part stay here and if i have more time i will do more and more frontend stuff as i did before @ neocrome. Skinning/ and nice UI Plugins. But i can also understand the feeling that here are only some guys (no idea how active the russian forum is right now) and only the half of them release stuff for free (or at least keep the nice stuff for you). maybe we need a showcase or something that is more appealing to the eye... most people go visual. In my opinion this system can do the same as drupal or any other system but you have to work for it harder because of the lack of other supportive users. (some sidenote here: we should maybe remove (merge) that type of topics beacause it dont makes a good impression on new users seeing 100 post about how bad support/skins/plugins are) Added 3 minutes later: and we should maybe talk again about the marketing of that cms. URL shortener: <a href="http://bbm.li/!7AD5C7">http://bbm.li/!7AD5C7</a>

urlkiller

#10 2011-12-19 15:29

Contributors
Bedankt: 3 tijden

NOOOOOOOOO! Another one down

I agree on some points with Diablo. But still this is failry the best and versataile System i came across on the internets.
But Maybe its really better for the impatient to move along to new green madows...

Me for my part stay here and if i have more time i will do more and more frontend stuff as i did before @ neocrome.
Skinning/ and nice UI Plugins.

But i can also understand the feeling that here are only some guys (no idea how active the russian forum is right now) and only the half of them release stuff for free (or at least keep the nice stuff for you).

maybe we need a showcase or something that is more appealing to the eye... most people go visual.
In my opinion this system can do the same as drupal or any other system but you have to work for it harder because of the lack of other supportive users.

(some sidenote here: we should *maybe* remove (merge) that type of topics beacause it dont makes a good impression on new users seeing 100 post about how bad support/skins/plugins are)

Added 3 minutes later:

and we should maybe talk again about the marketing of that cms.

URL shortener: <a href="http://bbm.li/!7AD5C7">http://bbm.li/!7AD5C7</a>

esclkm	#11 2011-12-19 19:31
Team Bedankt: 76 tijden	You make like this! for those developers, who makes CMS May be it is not best, but the most trouble is poppularity of it... not any more littledev.ru - мой маленький зарождающийся блог о котонти. снижение стоимости программирования и снижение стоимости производства разные вещи. Первое можно скорее сравнить с раздачей работникам дешевых инструментов, чем со снижением зарплаты

esclkm

#11 2011-12-19 19:31

Team
Bedankt: 76 tijden

You make like this! for those developers, who makes CMS May be it is not best, but the most trouble is poppularity of it... not any more

littledev.ru - мой маленький зарождающийся блог о котонти.
снижение стоимости программирования и снижение стоимости производства разные вещи. Первое можно скорее сравнить с раздачей работникам дешевых инструментов, чем со снижением зарплаты

Twiebie	#12 2011-12-19 20:02
Team Bedankt: 74 tijden	#32169 urlkiller: (some sidenote here: we should maybe remove (merge) that type of topics beacause it dont makes a good impression on new users seeing 100 post about how bad support/skins/plugins are) I think it's best to be clear and honest about things and to not hide the fact something is wrong. If people don't point out what is wrong, it can't be fixed.

pieter	#13 2011-12-19 20:58
Team Bedankt: 9 tijden	Off-topic: This dog is in Brussels-Belgium :-) #32174 esclkm: ... can we help you ...

lukgoh	#14 2011-12-19 21:25
Members Bedankt: 12 tijden	#32176 Twiebie: #32169 urlkiller: (some sidenote here: we should maybe remove (merge) that type of topics beacause it dont makes a good impression on new users seeing 100 post about how bad support/skins/plugins are) I think it's best to be clear and honest about things and to not hide the fact something is wrong. If people don't point out what is wrong, it can't be fixed. Agreed, it can only be a posotive thing to show issues are being addressed.

lukgoh

#14 2011-12-19 21:25

Members
Bedankt: 12 tijden

#32176 Twiebie:
#32169 urlkiller:
(some sidenote here: we should *maybe* remove (merge) that type of topics beacause it dont makes a good impression on new users seeing 100 post about how bad support/skins/plugins are)

I think it's best to be clear and honest about things and to not hide the fact something is wrong.

If people don't point out what is wrong, it can't be fixed.

Agreed, it can only be a posotive thing to show issues are being addressed.

diablo	#15 2011-12-21 02:21
Members Bedankt: 5 tijden	What do you think is the most imporant aspect of a successful community? What would you do if you were in my position (community manager & developer) right now? (assuming you have all skills and knowledge you need) What would make you change your mind? 1- Quantity brings the Quality so when there are more people CMS gets better. I tried to spread it as much as i can but poor extension and theme support scares people away.There are book written in my native language in my college's crappy library about Joomla, Wordpress and Drupal.. 2- I would release a final version, thank anyone who got involved and call it.(Like Olivier did) Move on my way with another CMS which still has hope for. Its hard to do but you must face it someday. 3- I think I got misunderstood a little. The popularity is not the only reason im leaving. I cant even code a plugin for cotonti anymore its soo much more complicated than it used to. Simplicity is gone, I can tell this since im no expert or newbie. Also the community and content is %140 russian now and I have no idea about this cyrilic alphabet. @esclkm: I'm sorry the way you feel but ignoring the awful truth wont help anyone. How can you expect understanding me when I cant even understand what it written in your signature. "Always code as if the guy who ends up maintaining your code will be a violent psychopath who knows where you live."

diablo

#15 2011-12-21 02:21

Members
Bedankt: 5 tijden

What do you think is the most imporant aspect of a successful community?
What would you do if you were in my position (community manager & developer) right now? (assuming you have all skills and knowledge you need)
What would make you change your mind?

1- Quantity brings the Quality so when there are more people CMS gets better. I tried to spread it as much as i can but poor extension and theme support scares people away.There are book written in my native language in my college's crappy library about Joomla, Wordpress and Drupal..

2- I would release a final version, thank anyone who got involved and call it.(Like Olivier did) Move on my way with another CMS which still has hope for. Its hard to do but you must face it someday.

3- I think I got misunderstood a little. The popularity is not the only reason im leaving. I cant even code a plugin for cotonti anymore its soo much more complicated than it used to. Simplicity is gone, I can tell this since im no expert or newbie. Also the community and content is %140 russian now and I have no idea about this cyrilic alphabet.

@esclkm: I'm sorry the way you feel but ignoring the awful truth wont help anyone. How can you expect understanding me when I cant even understand what it written in your signature.

"Always code as if the guy who ends up maintaining your code will be a violent psychopath who knows where you live."

123>>>

Joomla	22.2%	2
Drupal	55.6%	5
TYPO3	22.2%	2